Same-sex marriages are NOT legal in Finland!! Let me educate you where it’s legal:

South Africa, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Canada, Norway (beinging Jan-01-2009), the U.S. states of Massachusetts, and Connecticut.

Oh, and if you did your research, you would see that out of all the states in the U.S., Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate still, and they’ve had gay marriage for more than 4 years.

While i accept that the argument may be weak. It is still part of the equation.

Two of the things that I feel did the worst damage for the gay cause in the media..

1) Gavin Newsom boasts that, “whether you like it or not”

Because it’s clearer now that we, the people don’t like it, and don’t like having it shoved down our throats.

2) Gay Marriage Day For 1st Graders.

Taking a class 1st Graders (that had permission, granted) to a gay marriage hit to close to home with many parents. It may have seemed that logical thing to do from the gay perspective. But this was not like taking them to watch the first moon launch. It only shocked many parents into drawing a line and feeling it had been crossed.

Yes, But both of those classes are electives and are not required. A parent can very easily not allow their child to be part of them. In fact a permission slip is sent home with a full list of the curriculum of such classes, so the student doesn’t get to end up in one of those classes without the parents permission. ( I checked with two of the local schools.)

This simply is not a good argument in any form to not allow it.

“Education Code section 51933 makes it clear that schools that teach “comprehensive sex education” have to teach, “respect for marriage and committed relationships”. This is something no school district can get around.”

They are suddenly going to start teaching about marriage in school because gay marriage is now allowed? I have two girls in school. One is half way through high school. They never had a class that taught about marriage. Not once.

So that argument is not valid. Schools aren’t going to suddenly start teaching about marriage because gay marriage is suddenly legal.

Also in the state of California where this law is going to be passed any parent may remove their student from a class that teaches anything they don’t wish their child to learn. It’s in the law. Check it out. I know. I have used it in the past.

PS, Please don’t insult my intelligence trying to say they don’t have to teach gay marriage in schools ( I have seen the ads), just look how fundamental rights are used to make the case for gay marriage. It is clear that if it remains law. The first time it’s challenged in a school the gay rights groups will be right there trying to shut down the school and have all the teachers that don’t want to teach gay marriage fired. If you say that is not going to happen then you are only fooling yourselfs… They will be there waving the law, tossing personal rights and tolerance out the window. You ask how can i say this… because gay or not it’s what the winner of any battle would do..

So let me ask you, my fellow proponents who are prepared to vote no on prop 8. Do any of my views make you uncomfortable? Would you have a problem with public schools teaching your children that polyandry, polygyny, marriage of man and beast and marriage to family members is normal and equal in the eyes of the state? If my comments make you uncomfortable, then you are to narrow minded, insensitive, and intolerant. Why must the definition of marriage in California be numerically, sexually and specie restrictive. Let me remind you, people like me love people, animals and lots of other things; and I want, no demand the right to marry all of them. I ask you, my fellow Californians who are prepared to vote no on proposition 8, to respond and support truly unrestricted marriage in California. Will you, my fellow ‘no on 8′ voters pledge to support those of us who want to marry beast, cousin and multiple persons?

Please note that the Picarello piece is an OPINION piece. Do not pass off opinion as fact. He speculates on what *might* happen. What *will* happen if Prop 8 is passed is that people’s rights will be eliminated. Let’s deal with reality and not speculation.

The “one thing leads to another” argument cuts both ways. Prop 8 ELIMINATES RIGHTS. If it is this easy to eliminate rights for one group of people, how long until someone wants to amend the state constitution to eliminate *your* rights. It is your responsibility as an American citizen and as a Christian to protect the rights of other. Protect their rights before you lose your own.

Religious Liberty Threats
“…making gay marriage a legal right will likely impose serious constraints on religious speech, assembly and worship; once gay marriage becomes the law, those who oppose it become outlaws.”– A. Picarello, Becket Fund for Religious Liberty

http://www.becketfund.org/other/NLJ%20Opinion%20SSM.pdf

Please don’t jump to illogical conclusions. I was attempting to show why *this particular law* is bad from a Christian perspective. Government by man, of course, does need to make and enforce laws. But man’s laws must be careful not to infringe on the freedoms that God gave us. Anytime the state makes a law that takes away our freedom, the burden is upon the state to demonstrate an overwhelming interest *of the state* for limiting freedom. There is no such state interest in restricting same sex marriage. This is exactly why the CA Supreme Court made its ruling striking down prohibitions against same sex marriage.

Not only does this NOT take God out of society, it makes way for God IN society. It gives people to find God in their own way, and in their heart, not by force of law. You cannot legislate a belief in God, or any particular interpretation of God’s law. Government is best when it stays out of the way of people’s religious beliefs. Allowing people to believe as they will is the antithesis of the state outlawing religion.

Your argument about legalizing drugs, prostitution, etc., is also illogical. The state can (and has) demonstrated a compelling reason to enact secular laws restricting those activities. There are good *secular* reasons for having laws against drugs, prostitution, etc. The same cannot be said for same sex marriage.

Your comment wanting to follow His Word is also problematic. Different people hold different beliefs and interpretations of His Word. The United States was created as a pluralistic society, therefore different beliefs must be respected, even if they don’t agree with yours (or mine). The only way different beliefs can be respected is if secular government refrains from creating laws based purely on religious beliefs. This is the problem with Prop 8. The only argument for Prop 8 is a religious belief. There is no logical secular argument for Prop 8. When I am concerned about following His Word, I seek spiritual counsel from my Church, not my government.

And don’t give me that red herring crap about “Buh.buh.buh… But then there’ll be polygamy and child molesters marrying 4 year olds!!” Listen to the following set of words REALLY SLOWLY so they sink in. Consenting. Adults. Legal. Contract. Can a 4 year old enter into a contract? No. Can I sell more than 100% of the stock in my company? No, so I can’t enter into a contract for more than 100% of joint assets either (i.e. polygamy.)

Good gravy, folks. A KANSAN is calling you on the carpet for being small minded and bigoted. And Mississippi looks at us and says, “Man, we may be 49th in the nation in everything but at least we’re not Kansas.”

No matter what you believe about the bible, it makes it clear that Gays have been around since at least the time of Moses (Moses wrote Genesis). Also, by the same logic, the marriage covenant prominent in Judeo-Christian society, and in other ones has been around as long.

Until fairly recently, the primary purpose of marriage was procreation. Look at Fiddler on the Roof, where the parents don’t fall in love officially for 25 years. So I think we would all agree that that has now changed. Even if I was infertile, I would want desperately to be married to someone I love.

But why is the link between marriage and childbearing important? Studies show again and again that a Father and Mother provide a stronger basis for society. Part of this is because the religious culture of marriage is one where you stick it out, thru thick and thin. You love and serve and help each other.

Something else has changed recently…divorce has become rampant in society. So this link that protects children is being dissolved.
If I was unable to bear a child, I still would want that link to allow me to protect my wife who I love.

I will find this, if someone is crazy enough to want me. That won’t be impacted by the vote November 4th. So I would protect my children if I received with such a responsibility in the future.
So growing up I had to sort through the pain of divorce I saw not directly but indirectly to decide this is what I wanted. Some make my choice, some make others, such as living together with or without children without the big commitment. As I already explained, marriage with these promises are the best way for children to grow up, by far.
Now, I’ve made my choice, but the rising generation has not. The problem with Gay marriage is it says nothing about this Judeo-Christian promise–again, regardless of what you believe, the bible makes it clear that there is a dislike of Gays by the former of this bond, be it God or some wise man, so we can’t equate the two relationships as being equal.

So, if Gay marriage happens, the bond will fade more from culture…and once the bond goes away, marriage will not be important. Childbearing will be next to go, as people are able to avoid this and simply have careers. Childbearing and child rearing are obviously essential for our society to continue to prosper.

So by making things equivalent, which are not, Marriage will die.

Don’t believe me? Finland has Gay Marriage and one of the lowest overall marriage rates in the world. As far as childbearing goes there is an Average of 2.1 people per household, not good.

But people still are Gay, so what do we do about them? The statistics proposed are frightening.

So people who face this attraction face a lonely road, as it is generally unacceptable for some of the reasons I described. It is a trial. Now if you are like me, I believe they can stay chaste. For those of you who aren’t that optimistic, California already has Gay protection laws, that do NOT interfere with marriage.