Who’s in charge?
By Katrina Garcia | September 26, 2007
Print
|
A Collegian inquiry into an alcohol-related incident involving the Delta Zeta sorority found that the group did not inform its faculty adviser of its subsequent investigation.
The inquiry has raised questions about what goes on the record for the university and what goes unreported. According to Fresno State’s Greek adviser, the university does not require fraternities and sororities to report every occurrence.
The incident in question involving the Delta Zeta sorority was a result of drunkenness at a fraternity party in early September.
The investigation, conducted by internal advisers of Delta Zeta, involved interviewing sorority members who were present at the time of the incident. The investigation has since been concluded, according to Delta Zeta.
However, Dan Carrion, a theatre arts professor and Delta Zeta’s faculty adviser, did not know about the incident and its investigation until he was informed of it Friday by The Collegian.
Delta Zeta members at the sorority’s booth, located in the Free Speech Area, declined to give interviews last Wednesday and directed all questions to Melissa Littlewood, the group’s recruitment adviser. According to Carrion, Littlewood is a community volunteer and a former Delta Zeta who is available to give members advice.
Littlewood said Thursday the results of the investigation would be determined by Delta Zeta.
Delta Zeta was established locally in 1928 and is the oldest sorority on campus.
Littlewood said she and Sandy Hall, the regional collegiate coordinator for Delta Zeta, were conducting the internal investigation. At the time, Littlewood did not give an estimate of how long the investigation would last and said it would take “as long as necessary.”
“It depends on the severity,” Littlewood said Thursday. “There’s no timeline.”
Questions involving the investigation process and its procedures were then directed to Hall.
Hall, who is not affiliated with the university, said Monday she would not discuss the investigation and would not confirm who was involved in the procedure.
“That’s an internal process,” Hall said.
Hall said Delta Zeta has a judicial process for investigations, but this incident “didn’t fall under that [process].” Hall would not give an example of a situation that would call for such a procedure, adding that “too many variables are involved.”
Hall said a more in-depth investigation would involve more than just chapter officers and board members and “if necessary, could go up to national officers.” Hall said she is considered part of the national organization, as she reports to a national council member.
“We don’t keep anything secret,” Hall said.
Hall said Monday that she has not met Carrion and that Delta Zeta didn’t inform the faculty adviser.
“I didn’t feel like it was necessary. There wasn’t a need to address anyone else on campus,” Hall said.
Hall said all members of Delta Zeta are required to complete AlcoholEdu, an online program that includes a series of quizzes about alcohol and its effects on the mind and body.
According to the Web site for Frostburg State University in Maryland, the AlcoholEdu course “will help empower students … to make well-informed decisions about your own use of alcohol, as well as cope with the drinking behaviors of peers and friends.” The site also said the course takes approximately two to three hours to complete.
“We monitor to make sure they’ve done it,” Hall said. “It’s a pretty extensive program.”
Carrion said after meeting with Delta Zeta members Monday evening, members told him that the incident apparently did not involve anyone in the sorority. Rather, members told Carrion that it was the friend of a potential member who tagged along with her at a Delta Zeta event.
Carrion said Monday night the sorority told him the following occurred:
• Delta Zeta had “a couple of empty spots left.”
• A Delta Zeta potential and her friend came to an event held by the sorority. The potential and her friend left to go to a fraternity party.
• After the sorority event ended, more Delta Zeta sisters went to the party. There, they found the potential’s friend intoxicated.
• The sisters didn’t want to leave the potential’s friend, so they took her back to the Delta Zeta house, where they cared for her. The sisters told Carrion they had never met the potential’s friend before.
• They notified the sorority’s president, Joann Mercado, of the situation and that the girl was sick. Mercado apparently called Littlewood to let her know about the situation.
Two messages to Mercado were not returned.
Carrion also said that no one in the sorority was drinking with the girl, according to members he spoke with Monday night.
“I don’t think they were lying to me at all,” Carrion said.
Laura Williams, Fresno State’s Greek adviser, said notifying the university of internal investigations is not always necessary.
“If a chapter is holding a member accountable, that’s an internal process for them,” Williams said. “I don’t always know if a chapter is internally holding members accountable.”
But if a report is filed by a police department, Williams will know about the situation. If a fraternity or sorority is mentioned at all in a University Police Department report, a copy is sent to Williams.
Williams said she always contacts the president of the organization if that occurs.
However, if an incident is reported by the Fresno Police Department, for example, the campus police department does not automatically receive those reports, according to Amy Armstrong, the public information officer for the University Police Department. But the department can request reports.
Williams said an example of a police call would be when police are called to remove a “rowdy” individual from a fraternity house attempting to get free beer from the residence and who may have got aggressive after the person was asked to leave.
The Fresno Police Department will often let Williams know if it has a report involving a fraternity or sorority.
“By something being reported to me, the university has knowledge of it,” Williams said.
Some chapters’ national policies may require notification of certain advisers—be it alumni or faculty—of internal investigations.
“Usually, it’s somewhat predicated in their constitution,” Williams said.
But the chapters are “not forced by the university” to inform Williams of any internal investigations.
If it’s a conduct issue, based on the chapter’s polices, the alumni adviser often has to report to its regional or national authority.
Williams, who became Greek adviser in June 2006, said one of her roles is to act as a liaison between the university and Greek life.
“As Greek adviser, one of my major roles is to be an advocate of Greek life,” Williams said, “to help them by providing resources … help interpret policies.”
Williams said about two to three times each month, she has a conversation with a fraternity or sorority member. Usually, a chapter president will initiate the discussion with Williams, and it typically involves alcohol-related concerns for a member of the group. Sometimes, Williams may even start the conversation with a chapter president.
Williams described the 39-chapter Greek system as taking the “stool approach,” with the chapter as the seat of the chair and each leg as a different resource for its members — its alumni, national advisers and the university.
“Unlike other students, they have more of a support network,” Williams said.
But the question of informing faculty advisers of internal chapter issues, Williams said, has “a somewhat murky answer.” It depends on what kind of relationship the chapter has with its adviser and how severe the situation is.
When internal investigations are conducted by a chapter, Williams said the group can decide whether or not to inform the faculty adviser, depending on what leg of the stool the chapter feels most comfortable addressing the problem to.
She said “a large number of faculty/staff advisers” are very involved with their fraternities/sororities. “I think it depends on the chapter,” Williams said. “I think some of that is up to how much they [advisers] want to be involved.”
However, Williams said if a situation is bigger, the university can hold the chapter accountable, and the fraternity or sorority can then be sanctioned by the university.
If actions by the university are taken, the campus will always inform the national organization and its alumni.
But regarding alcohol-related incidents and conduct issues involving the university’s fraternities and sororities, Williams said, “Of late, it’s been non-Greek or non-Fresno State students.”
“Yes, they still have things to learn and they are working on that,” Williams said. “We don’t think Greeks are perfect.”
Further discussion can be found here:
http://collegian.csufresno.edu/2007/09/28/whos-in-charge-explained/
Comments
99 Responses to “Who’s in charge?”
This is the type of reporting we should see more often, Collegian. Quit the fluff stories and give us more of this.
well done. Good reporting, Katrina. Too often these things are swept under the rug while the campus paper sits idly by.
Mr. Ito, you ask for more of this, but, I must ask, what is this? It appears that the collegian was looking for some dirt, and did not find any so they went to print, the front page no less, with a story that does not tell an actual account of any story and does not affect students in any way. The headline reads, “how is the greek community held accountable for its actions?” and then the only actions, according to your story is taking care of an intoxicated young lady. Also according to your story the GREEK ADVISOR says that the university does not require that fraternities and soroities report every occurence, so what was special about taking care of drunk girl that it needs to be reported? Lets face it, college students drink and greek students are not the only ones who drink, so the fact that the Delta Zeta ladies TOOK CARE of someone who was drunk should be commended, but then again, commending and praising greeks for the good they do does not make good news in the Fresno State Gossip Daily, also known as the Collegian.
If you all are going to continue to publish stories with no benficial content you might as well sell it in the supermarket checkout lines next to The National Inquirer and the likes.
What’s the history of The Collegian just digging up dirt for fun? Let’s try never.
The lede is fair, accurate and otherwise honest, and the article asks questions that should have been asked a long time ago.
Leave your ad hominem at the door, thank-you-very-much.
Clearly someone is yanking a chain:
Tony Micelli is from Who’s the Boss
Isn’t Lance Ito the old O.J. Simpson Judge?
I think AC Slater was posting here last week—–Saved By the Bell?
I agree with Mackee for the most part.
If a story exists in all that text above, it sure is hard to find.
I tried twice to figure out what the story was about, but couldn’t even get through the whole thing because I have no idea why any of it matters to anyone ever.
Something newsworthy might be in there somewhere, but this story lacks focus.
Mr. Baxter,
again i ask, what dirt was dug up? Sorority girls took care of a drunk girl? And they had the audacity to not alert everyone? Do any of you ever go out? Some people do not know how to hold their alcohol and it is better to make sure they are safe and sound instead of letting her walk the streets drunk, or, much worse, drive home drunk.
Please enlighten me, Mr. Baxter, or any one else for that matter, on why this story has any content that students need to know?
I didn’t call it dirt, if you’ll re-read the comments carefully. I expressed skepticism that it was dirt at all.
The issue is not that they did not tell everyone. The issue is that their adviser — someone who should, ideally, have a pretty good idea about what’s going on — hadn’t a clue.
That’s kinda a big deal. That’s also exactly what the lede was.
Sure, students drink. Students also do a lot of other stupid things. That it’s common is hardly a defense when the offense is a misdemeanor.
The article included all the relevant information about the incident, fairly and accurately. It even avoided commenting on the relative absurdity of the official Delta Zeta story.
I’m not sure what else you want.
Let me try and help Mackee,
The question is whether or not the level of university oversight regarding alcohol related issues is sufficient. The fact that the university does not currently
require that every incident be reported to the faculty advisor does not mean that they shouldn’t at least revisit the issue. The fact that Laura Williams states that the question of whether or not to inform the university or advisor is ” a somewhat murky answer,” suggests that there needs to be clarification.
You may feel that the current policy of, well sometimes you tell and sometimes you don’t, it just kind of depends, approach is satisfactory. I for one think it is full of all types of potential problems for both the greek organizations and the university should something unfortunate occur. I think you can also see the potential for conflict of interest in having organizations responsible for investigating themselves and determining whether or not anyone else really needs to know. Since these groups are associated with the university, it seems there should be additional oversight in these matters.
It sounds like these women did a good thing and looked out for someone in distress. In light of that, would the sky have fallen if they had informed their advisor? Where did anyone suggest that they inform everyone, as you write?
This story was quite fair. It did not simply say somebody at a greek event got drunk. Members of the sorority and their spokespeople were interviewed and their side of what happened and why was given. The philosophy of how these groups are approaching drinking was presented and Laura Williams was quoted as saying that recent alcohol related incidents involved non-Greek individuals. Arguing that nobody has a right to question the way this and related issues are handled if they involve a greek organization is a position that will damage these groups in the long run.
Why is it that every time anyone gets drunk in or around a Greek organization it makes the front page? Why aren’t any of philanthropies or community service achievements making ANY page in The Collegian? I find it completely ridiculous that a non-Greek would have the audacity to give insight into an organization they know nothing about. What is the fascination with Greek life? We do not report on non-Greek members’ behaviors when they attend our events; we open our doors and welcome them into our homes. Every time a non-Greek gets drunk it doesn’t even make a splash, where are the accounts of members of AS if they behave poorly? I would like to see a statistic of DUI percentages among non-Greeks compared to Greeks.
The whole article asks the question, are Greeks being held responsible. I feel that Greeks are held even more accountable for our actions; we are constantly defending and justifying our behaviors while other members of clubs and athletic teams are safe from ridicule. National bylaws do not require the involvement of campus advisors; I would like to challenge the majority of campus advisors to name the members of the Greek organization that they are supposed to council. Phi Mu, personally has invited our advisor to dinner which she only attended on one occasion. I furthermore would like to invite Katrina Garcia to Monday night dinners to squash her negative perspective on Greek life. Her misleading article perpetuates the negative stereotypes associated with sororities and fraternities, because wasn’t the article about a non-Greek getting intoxicated and the considerate members of Delta Zeta coming to her aid? Would the story be written more favorably if the sisters had left her behind to fend for herself? I would think not, shouldn’t we be held for our own actions, no one forced the girl to drink and the sisters took the initiative to inform their president, alumna and Greek advisor of the situation. How many other organizations inform their advisors or coaches of non-members drinking or behavior? It seems to me that people should focus less on what Greeks are doing and concern themselves on their own behaviors, because who will you write about when you force Greek life off campus?
Sister of Phi Mu,
Because those philanthropic causes are created and carried out simply to make the organization look like it stands for something. They are obligatory and serve the sole purpose of making frats and sors look like they are worhty of a place at the university. Sorry for speaking the truth. Don’t lash out at me.
Michael Stivik,
If you really think that’s the truth, why don’t you come over for dinner one Monday night at 6:00 and see what we are really about. That is absurd that you are willing to sit there and speak out about an orginization you have no idea of, or never been a part of. I am sorry but honestly, open your eyes and get over the stereotypes you have heard.
Different sister,
Nah, not interested. I work for a living. Pwned!!!
let me qualify that statement by saying that I don’t have a free hour to sit around while a ‘house mom’ prepares some second rate meal for me.
I went to one of these sorority houses a few years ago for a class assignment (a group assignment). I couldn’t even use the latrine at the place—-females only! I was like, “are you kidding me? Why hold the group meeting at this stuffy place?” What are we in, the 19th century?
If you’re so proud of your organization, use your real name, “phi spew” sister.
I have been a member of a sorority on campus for two years now, and I am graduating in the Spring. I just wanted to add my two cents on the issue.
This is directed at Michael. I know that discussing your opinions can get heated, especially when you are frusterated because someone is expressing an opinion that you may not agree with, but I think the name calling is unnecessary and I would rather see you support your arguments with vaild points than criticize with name-calling. I respect that you have an opinion, and before I start my discussion, I just ask that you please respect that I have mine. I am writing this to defend myself, my sisters, and the Greek community on our campus by rebuttling your claims.
I think that if someone really wants to expose the “truth” about sorority life, they should ask a member of a specific organization. If you are not a part of a sorority, you have no idea what it’s really like, so how are you credible in your claims and how can you prove them? Every sorority is different, so I could not say what it’s like to be a part of another house. I can only speak of my own house. We have male and female guest bathrooms downstairs that are available at all times, so I assure you that you did not visit my house. Secondly, we do not have a house mom that cooks “second rate” meals. We have a cook that we hire to cook lunch and dinner on mondays through thursdays. We are stocked with cereal, toast, breakfast foods, etc. for breakfast and other things are available for us to cook when we want it… which by the way, we pay for all of this in our monthly rent. As for you “working for a living,” I do too, and so do my sisters. There are only three out of fifty two ladies in my house that do not work. Most of them support themselves, paying for their rent and dues here. To add, most of them manage to acheive a G.P.A. over a 3.0, not to mention the handful that received 4.0 G.P.A.s this past semester. It outright insults and infuriates me to sit back and listen to you degrade our work ethic, stereotyping us as spoiled, lazy, superficial ladies that have nothing to do but party. What bothers me even more is that you think that our philanthropic efforts are merely “philanthropic causes are created and carried out simply to make the organization look like it stands for something. They are obligatory and serve the sole purpose of making frats and sors look like they are worhty of a place at the university.” You claim to be speaking the “truth.” Well, let me inform you of the truth. This past year, our chapter alone raised $4,000 for Children’s Miracle Network in two of our philanthropic events and visit the hospital regularly. We may be required to ONE philanthropic event for each semester, but we WANT to and CHOOSE to participate in Relay for Life, Race for the Cure, Light the Night, Babyfest, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Kid’s Day, and we also actively participate and donate money to support the philanthropies of other sororities and fraternities on campus. That doesn’t sound like us meeting bare minimum requirements to me.
Our monday night dinners are a great opportunity for us to get together as a house (since we’re obviously busy with school, work, intermural programs, and volunteering our time to serve the house during the week) and also honor our house mother.
I don’t have much to add about the partying situation, except for that fact that I don’t know too many college students who don’t party. To criticize a group of women who decided to take care of a girl who they just met is ignorant and disrespectful in my opinion. Furthermore, taking a non-Greek member to their house and taking care of her while she could not care for herself is empathetic and has nothing to do with their campus advisor. In my opinion, they covered all bases that needed to be covered in that situation. No other club or sports organization on campus would be criticized for not notifying their campus advisor if someone threw up at one of their houses, so why should it be different for Delta Zeta?
I agree with the comments made that articles like this should be in the grocery store next to all of the gossip magazines, because most of what comes out about sororities and fraternities is exaggerated. I would like to see the Collegian do a story about what we actually are involved in rather than try to perpetuate popular misconceptions to the college.
Once again, you have a right to voice your opinions, but please try to make sure they have some fact-based arguments rather than building on assumptions you claim as fact before you start calling people names, degrading their integrity as people. Just because someone is affiliated with a Greek Organization does not mean they should be subject to such scrutiny and disrespect.
Its pretty sad to see so many close minded people in a college setting, really. Im used to this school and the stereotypes that people believe of Fraternities and Sororities, such as what they see in the movies “Animal House” or “Old School.” When I heard that there was ANOTHER article slamming the Greek community, all I could do was laugh and say “Wow, that doesn’t surprise me.” What is this, an episode of ‘GREEK?’ I believe a premise of an episode was a girl went through the pledging process, to stir up dirt on the Greek system, wrote an article on it, and published it in the schools news paper.
Another point I like to make is, contrary to popular belief, we don’t pay for friends. If we didn’t love our sisters or brothers, why would we even put ourselves in a situation where we live with them or even spending 10+ hours with them a week?
You cannot tell me that non-Greeks don’t party or have nothing to do with underage drinking. I would like to see the rate of people that come back to the Dorms in the middle of the night intoxicated. What happens to them?! Of course, it’s never reported in the Collegian, Fresno Bee, or even spoken about. It’s pretty sad when the campus won’t even look at what is happening right in front of them when it comes to drinking… they have to pick out the Greek Community.
Obviously Michael, you don’t know what goes on the in the Greek Community, more than a MAJORITY of the Greek Community work part time or even full time. Yeah, that’s right, we work, go to school full time & handle our time with our organization. Oh, and the fact that you weren’t allowed to use are bathroom, well, no guy is allowed upstairs. Big deal!? Not really. If you really had to go, you could asked to use a guest bathroom or even drove a block to Taco Bell :)
Blatantly, all this is an attempt on trying to slam a sorority, dirty the reputation of Greek System a little more. What’s the big deal, they took care of a girl? Ooooohhh!!!
People are going to read it how they want too. I read it as Delta Zeta should get a pat on the back for what they did, not circulated around school as an attempt to hurt them or get them in trouble. The women of Delta Zeta took care of her rather than letting her wonder drunkenly around the Section Eight housing (Sin City,) who knows what could of happened to her.
Greeks are used to be under a spot light, or better yet a microscope
Don’t be surprised if you don’t see this in the Letters to the Editor.
###
Believe it or not, since the publication of this article, there has been an uproar from the leadership in the Greek Community. Many of us, including myself, ask ourselves why such blasphemous accusations against Greeks here on campus have been made. We understand that it is the duty of The Collegian to report stories and to educate the general populous. However, when erroneous statements such as the ones made in the article written by Katrina Garcia have been made, it tarnishes the reputation of not only the reporter, but also the publication.
It is a fallacy to say that “All Greeks Drink.” The conclusion that could be deduced from that statement is that “All people who drink are Greek.” If you think about it, it is wrong. Very wrong. It is stating that people who you find at restaurants and bars who are drinking are in fact Greek, when, more times than not, they are not.
Although the school does a great job with promoting that “7 out of 10” students drink safely, it makes me personally question the validity of the research made to prove those conclusions. The general stereotype among Greeks nationwide is that we all drink. I am here to inform you that there are individuals out there who refuse to drink until they are 21 who are in Greek letter organizations. There are those who just chose not to drink out of choice. It is unfair to target Greeks in this matter because we are such an easy target for ridicule.
Before you start pointing fingers, we as a community want to know why a student athlete who has a domestic dispute with his girlfriend, who alleges he hit her, make the front page? It made headlines on the Fresno Bee. I would think that as much as we all are educated individuals attending an institution for higher education that we should be educated on real world matters such as that.
Furthermore, the main reason why those sorts of stories don’t make front page news in a student run newspaper is because of the outcry that will come from the student population because a student athlete got involved in a domestic dispute. Heaven forbid that an average student gets drunk at a party, and because of the location of the party, it makes the front page news.
As a realist, I understand that drinking has been portrayed as part of the college experience. However, there are many isolated and undocumented incidents regarding alcohol too that have occurred here on campus. Questioning whether or not members are being punished or not within their own fraternities and sororities for actions that have been reported in The Collegian is ridiculous. Each fraternity and sorority holds each member accountable for their actions.
Within the four governing bodies of Greek life here on campus, each of them has a judicial board that handles disciplinary issues ranging from violation of rules to substance abuse for the Chapter in question under their jurisdiction. Because the general populous doesn’t hear about disciplinary action being taken, they think nothing ever resulted from it. To say that accountability is not there is absurd.
I, along with the Greek Community Leaders, and the Greek Community here at Fresno State hope that facts are proven correctly in the future and that fingers aren’t pointed immediately at the easiest targets. It’s unfortunate that we need to nitpick at the finer details such as “Who’s responsible for this?” and “Why isn’t there accountability?” Rather we should praise the sisters of Delta Zeta, who took the humane approach, and took care of the individual rather than leaving her high and dry with nobody to take care of her.
###
Mark Torres
Vice President, Order of Omega
Member, Sigma Phi Epsilon
I am a proud member of a sorority here on Fresno States campus. I honestly am sick to death of everyone talking so negatively on sorority and fraternity life. The article published in today’s paper is poorly written and researched and had no point what-so-ever. The article should have never been published. It had nothing to do with Greek life, except for the fact that some sorority girls took care of another drunk girl and thank God they did. But like the sisters of Phi Mu said, nobody commended them for that, instead they got exploited on the front page of the school news paper. I am sick of hearing all the stereotypes that people have for Greeks. People need to stop being so naive and understand that we are part of a great organization that does do good. My sorority recently raise just under $4,000 dollars to donate to our philanthropy. So Mr. Stivik, you and your close minded attitude need a reality check. Our Greek system doesn’t run like ones you see in movies or on television. If you believe every stereotype you heard you would be one lonely person. I don’t hate football players because they are portrayed as “dumb jocks” in movies, or hate on members of the chess club because they are “nerds,” but I do hate people with close minds because it gets you no where in life. You have no right to talk poorly about the Greek system or how it runs, because you Mr. Stivik have no clue what we are about, you have no clue about our brotherhood or our sisterhood, about rituals, about philanthropies, or about how much stronger and poised you become from being part of such an amazing organization. So actually I feel bad for you, because you will never be able to have such a life changing experience. And if you need to use our bathroom, I am personally welcoming you to ours whenever you need it. Maybe it would just be easier if everyone stayed out of everyone else’s business. The incident that happened has no concern of anyone’s. I mean since everyone hates us so much why do you care what goes on in Greek life, ohhh that’s right because without Greek life you all wouldn’t have gossip. Get OVER IT.
Its sad to see that our young journalists are much like our major news netwroks in that they don’t cover real issues. It is easy to go after the Greek System and to cater to simple people, just like it is easy for CNN and FOX to cover Britney Spears and O.J. Simpson, instead of holding our elected leaders accountable.
Real journalism would be writing an article about how the Save Mart Center is in violation of its Environmental Impact Report (Which it is!)or how the university can’t account for its scholarship money or why Free Speech at the university, like most college campuses across the country, is becoming a thing of the past.
What was the point of Ms. Garcia’s article? It has a negative title, but it actually shows a sorority doing a good thing by looking after a non-member. Wow, that is a big deal. The only reason it is even a story is because it has the word Greek inserted a few times. Her next article will be something like “Greeks Grades in Question?” And then she’ll use the example of Greeks going to class and graduating in 4 years. And maybe she’ll ask tough questions like, ‘Why didn’t their advisers know about this? or Why wasn’t it made public?”
As soon as I read this “article” this morning, I was so outraged that I had to say somethihg, and as a menber of a fraternity, I am proud that others in the Greek system have followed suit. The latest response, from Katrina, I am assuming, still does not answer the question, what is the story really about?
You say in your response that “it sounds like these women did a good thing and looked out for someone in distress” you then continue with, “would the sky have fallen if they had informed their advisor?” and then flip-flop again asking,”when did anyone suggest they inform anyone?”
in this lone paragraph, you acknowledge that the soroity you did an investigative report on did a good thing, then suggest that they should have contacted their advisor, and then note that that was not what you were suggesting. So if that is not what you were suggesting then, again i ask what on earth was your intent.
Is it really like you write, to “question, wherher the university response to this issue was sufficient” If Laura WIlliams says that notifying the university of internal investigations is not always neccesary, why do you feel that taking care of a young lady who was intoxicated, which you yourself commended, warrants getting the university involved?
As a senator of ASI as well as a member of SIgma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity, I really hope that l, in the future, if the Collegian chooses to do “investigative” reports they do not lean on the easy crutch of attacking the Greeks or for that matter any other group that appear to be under the radar of the “watchful” eye of the Collegian like athletics or ASI, and stick to stories that have some actual benefit to the Fresno State Community.
I don’t understand why everyone is so concerned with a student drinking. There are so many more college students that drink, and do things way worse than that. So if a student in the dorms gets drunks, should it be required to report it to an RA? Should all of those instances then be reported in the Collegian?
People just like to go after groups and clubs because they’re an easy target, when really they’re here to improve themselves and just have a better experience at college life.
No one can tell me that they haven’t made a mistake, it just hasn’t been publicized like this. Maybe the Collegian should go after something more interesting, affairs that concern all students, and not trying to grab for a story just because it has to do with a club at school.
A whole lot of words and no context. I want the 10 minutes of my life I spent reading your worthless article back. This girl had a drunken incident???? You call that news????
To be honest, I hardly hear of ANY Greek Advisors from campus being involved in situations. Instead of bashing on Delta Zeta for not informing their advisor, the reporter should have seen how often the other fraternities and sororities utilize their advisors and the whole story never would have mattered.
Good job Delta Zeta, you did the right thing.
Michael Stivik, you are an ignorant and naive person. Get a life.
I am not a member of the Greek community, nor do I have any friends who are.
However, I was still shocked that an article was published about this incident merely because it involved a sorority–a sorority that HELPED out a person they could have easily left alone. Would the story still have been written if the sorority was accused of knowingly leaving an intoxicated girl by herself? Yes. But I think the latter would have been an issue actually worth writing about. Instead, Katrina Garcia turned something positive into something quite negative.
One comment states that the basis of the article was to report on the advisor was not informed. Yet, Williams is stated to have said that it depends on the severity of the issue and the relationship of the sorority and its advisor. So in other words, there is no clear and simple rule showing that the sorority did anything wrong. So what, a girl–who was not a member–got drunk, like the hundreds of other college students out there. Is this a severe situtation? Not really.
Also, thel ead is very deceiving to say that there was “an alcohol-related incident involving the Delta Zeta sorority.” I’m not sure about everyone else, but doesn’t it set the tone that the article is going to focus on an issue that would involve something more along the lines of the sorority providing alcohol to minors or a member getting intoxicated and hurting someone. Because of its deceptive nature, a reader who knew nothing about the incident before reading this article wouldn’t be able to find out exactly what happened until about……550 words into the article. Only until this point does the reader learn that the incident actually didn’t even involve sorority members, except for being of assistance to another human being.
In response to gm’s comment: “It sounds like these women did a good thing and looked out for someone in distress. In light of that, would the sky have fallen if they had informed their advisor?”
It sounds to me like this is a pathetic attempt to say that you were aware of the positive side of the situtation–which seems to me should have been the actual story–and yet you’re still unsatisfied with the sorority’s actions because they didn’t let their advisor know.
To sum it up easily: Some random girl got drunk. Delta Zeta sisters helped the drunken girl. The Collegian is bashing the sorority–and all Greek life in general–because of their efforts to help someone out.
There seems to be something about Greek life that draws in readers–whether positive or negative, though the latter seems to be the usual focus.
I agree with those who say that today’s edition of the paper hit the level of being just another filthy supermarket tabloid. Is that what the Collegian strives to be just to attract readers? If it is, then job well done. I’m sure that you’ll be receiving plenty more readers because of this article, but not for good reasons.
the collegian hit an all time low. i applaud you, katrina. you have writen an article not worth paying attention to with only michael stivik’s opinion to help you back up your “facts”.
to the greeks, keep your heads up. you’re doing a good job.
hey I just want to say thanks for all the support within the Greek system and even outside of the Greek system. Im really impressed that people are actually supporting us. It’s also making our Greek system stronger as a whole. Thanks!
Katrina Garcia,
I have your next big story. If you would like to continue to praise the sisters of Delta Zeta, or sorority women in general, for going above and beyond the duties of an average US citizen, I am excited to inform you of our philanthopy Pike Soccer, where many sororities have already donated over a $500 dollars towards a camp for children with muscular dystrophy. The event will be held at Fresno Indoor Soccer on the corner of Shaw and Cedar at 11am this sunday (9-30-07). I am thinking the title of the article could read “Greek Challenge: When was the last time you donated time or money to those less fortunate?”
President of Pi Kappa Alpha
This page is a debacle. You kids have too much time on your hand. No need to defend something as trivial as the Greek system. If people want to pay for their friends, by all means, let them have that right.
I agree with everyone’s comments. Amanda, you are right; I think this has brought the Greek community together.
I just wanted to say to all of the Greek organizations on our campus, I commend you for all the wonderful efforts you make to better yourselves through leadership opportunities, philanthropic events, and through spending time with your brothers and sisters. I really hope to that the next article published in the Collegian about Greek life is one that debunks stereotypes and assumptions and acknowledges the Greek community for our scholastic and philanthropic achievements, such as Pike’s upcoming Philanthropy.
I’ve said it already in my post, but once again, thank you Delta Zeta for showing your considerate nature to the community!
I have been reading the Collegian for four years now, and have to say I am very disappointed and outraged about today’s front-page article. It was poorly written and really had no point. My neighbors sounded like they were doing a great deed in helping a young girl out. I am sick and tired of wasting my time reading articles about nothing. I keep hoping that the Collegian will write about something that actually means something important. I am a full time student, hold a full time job, an active member of my sorority, graduating this spring, and try to have a social life. So when I have a few free minutes I try to enlighten myself by reading the paper. Unfortunately, the Collegian is not an accurate source for expanding my collegiate knowledge. Not only are the bias and pointless Collegian articles a bad reflection on the newspaper, they also provide a poor view of what the university is teaching their journalism students.
A bit off topic, but a comment worth addressing:
Brittany,
Though I do agree, as stated in my previous post, that this article was indeed poorly written, I think that the fault should not lie in the hands of ALL journalism students.
Why? Because I am a journalism major and am a bit offended by the comments you made towards us.
As the Greek community wishes not to be generalized by past events, I also feel that journalism students should be given the same respect and not be judged poorly because of a lapse in proper writing skills shown by only ONE of the many students on campus who are by far better writers and reporters than what is seen here.
Katrina,
This is the most class less thing I have seen in four years at Fresno State. Please do some research next time and get your facts straight. If I were in Charge of this newspaper I would fire you on the spot because your article has given The Collegian a Black eye and not to mention has made you thousands of enemies. I fi were you I would switch majors while you are ahead. O wait you were never ahead because everything else you write is crap. Please put this in the letter to the editor.
Hey everybody.
I read the article, and read every comment. Katrina Garcia has no place to speak negative about a sorority house who did the right thing. I myself am a member of Sigma Chi and proud of it. I’m proud of every house that carries letters. We as greeks are assumed to be straight out of “AnimalHouse” or “Old School”. I understand that most greeks drink, and i emphasize MOST becuase i myself have decided not to drink until i am 21. Thank you Mackee for bringing up a good point. I applaud the ladies of Delta Zeta, they took upon themselves a responsibility that was not theirs.
If anything, it was the non-greek member who could not handle her alcohal who should be on blast! And to conter the idea that their advisor should have known…we are adults, we can handle our own situations without having someone look over our shoulders. The ladies of delta zeta did what needed to be done and their was no incident or situation to report to their advisor.I’m sorry that Katrina is a terrible reporter and had nothing to do but scrounge up an easy story.
And to Mr. Stivik, who declined the invitation to a sorority, as a non-greek you aswell have no place to talk on this situation. You dont understand how greek houses work, you dont understand the judicial process we take and the responsibilities we hold. So IF you choose to accept the responsibilites of a greek member as all fraternities brothers and all sorority sisters have, then come back and respond. I stand strong by all the greeks who have responded against this article. In response to another Mr. Stivik remark…we may be told to do community service as a house, but my personal chapter and i’ve witnessed many other chapters going above and beyond the minimum requirement of hours. i promise you i do more community service than you.
So please take an opportunity to understand and realize the positives that Greek communities provide before you speak negatively about ANY greek community
I am an Alumni of an amazing sorority on campus. I would not normally read what is going on at the Fresno State campus, because truthfully I don’t really care. However, this was brought to my attention and I couldn’t help but to saying a few things.
To Surprised:
First off I think you may have taken Britney’s comment incorrectly. She, I am sure did not mean to lash out on Journalism students. She is not a judgmental person that would do that. But instead I believe her intent was to say we have great journalism students on campus, as in the greek system, and the collegian has become a poor representative of this. Have graduated from the journalism department I unfortunately agree with her point.
The Article:
I am currently getting my Masters in Journalism (about 300 miles away thank goodness) and I must say, the article written must be a JOKE. You first try to make a good deed into a bad one. You are a writer, your job is to write the facts, not turn a story into something it really wasn’t. You are trying to convince your audience of something that has no relevance and really a story that does not exist. Did you even do your research? You merely got quotes that really formed no story at all, no depth. When doing an investigative story, aren’t you supposed actually find something? That would have been interesting. Instead it seems like you are trying to dig up dirt that is not even there. Like others said why don’t you actually do a story on something that has relevance. Instead of trying to create one. Looks like you have a great future in the TRASHY TABLOIDS …..good luck!!!
To those who trash on GREEK philanthropies:
You have no idea, so I challenge you to participate. Go play Kappa Softball, it raises money for Stoned Soup. You say you have a life, no time? I’m pretty sure half of the girls with full-time jobs, being full-time students, and involved on campus can top your “busy” schedule. You can’t even give up an hour of your time? Thats sad. What good have you done lately?
So I challenge you to go participate, see for yourself….and until you do….. SHUT IT!! (sorry that was blunt, but come on!!)
PS …. do not attempt to critique any mistakes in my writing, I am aware it is poorly written. Between my graduate courses, books and papers I do not have time nor care to make sure this is written up to your standard. You are not my professor or boss, and you get the point of what I am saying.
PSS. the name is a joke….so don’t try to trash that either!!! I know!
Did anyone in the Greek system read the story or did they just follow each other blindly to form an angry mob. It seems to me the story was mostly about how one organization (Greeks) happens to deal with a situation that came up and what justifies action if any being taken. No one it seems in that sorority was willing to shout to the reporter what heros they were that night. Imagine a drunk non member being in their house and taking the time to stay up all night or did they to watch and make sure this person was okay. Maybe some of them would like to talk to Danny Daniels parents and see how well he was taken care of (another non Greek) being watched over by a caring fraternity. Guess the Collegian should wait until someone dies before they start questioning when someone is held accountable. I will say there are a lot of students members and non members who drink but the bashers are just showing their ignorance in NOT wondering why such honest people would not want to defend their own actions.Guess they are humble as well. Maybe Chief Dyer will give them a commendation for their house. OLD BUT NOT STUPID.
Why did Anchorsplash not make the front page? Anchorsplash, something worth writing about, was held this last weekend and Delta Gamma and all of the other particpating sororities and fraternities raised money for the visually impaired. I think this is a lot more important than some girl who drank too much at a party!
I’m out of toilet paper! Help me find left over copies of this article so I can make it through the week.
Mackee, you know you’re my boy. Lets get some friends together, get drunk, and throw up in the free speech area so the Collegian has something else to write about.
Att: Mike Greyson
I just want to say I am offended that you would say that us Greek members are paying to have friends. Most of the money we pay goes toward living expenses which would be like living in the dorms or in an apartment. The only other fees we have are our Chapter dues which is only about sixty dollars and that money is helping our chapter with buying things for the girls and donating money to other organizations. If you have ever been in a club you have to give money to be in it, to pay for stuff that you do and an example would be 4h or FFA. When you are in a club normally you have to spend money. If you are in a club and have fundraisers for the club that is the same thing as paying because you are making money for the club by spending your time to raise the money. My question to you is have you ever been in a club, organization or team? If so, then how does that make you different from us? Or do you not have any friends?
Oh, boy. I love dissension.
First things first. If you put “article” in quotes, you are neither clever nor biting. Just. Stop.
To get to the point, everyone here seems to be convinced The Collegian is bashing Greek life. Not the case, unless you could point out the sentence that says “All Greeks drink,” or Greeks acted irresponsibly. I might have skipped over that bit.
Most of the posters talk about all the philanthropy the Greeks do. I’ve only heard the rumors.
But if you really want coverage, send out a press release like everyone else. I know for a fact that only one — yes, one — club or organization on campus notified The Collegian of any activities they’d be doing this week. We have a calendar published weekly for this very reason. There has to be at least one PR major over there, right?
On a side note, if you can’t own up to using your real names, then don’t try to join the discussion, especially on this post. With nicknames, you’re a faceless, moronic mob.
Who I’m talking to:
Old Ho’ ;)
jdogg3tb
Sister of Delta Gamma
John doe
surprised
president of pike
…and many, many more.
I think we’re all in agreement that Stivik is also a moron.
That said, INTERESTED OLD SOUL makes a pretty good observation. I wasn’t going to go to the Danny Daniels level, but isn’t a .41 blood alcohol content just about comatose twice over?
What I’d like explored more is the point that there “were more spots available.” Was the person in question a potential potential, or really just a friend of a potential? If there were more spots available in a pledge class, I assume it’s possible both the sisters of DZ and herself might have entertained the notion of making her a potential pledge.
That would be unverifiable conjecture, however. That’s why The Collegian didn’t consider thinking about publishing it.
To all Greeks who think they aren’t paying for their friends: try not paying your dues. See what happens.
My name is Brittnee Maxfield, and I am an alumni member of Kappa Alpha Theta sorority, as well as a former advertising sales representative for The Collegian. I am disappointed to see that the paper has moved to publishing weekend party gossip, rather than informative news to better prepare students for their careers and maximize their education at Fresno State. Fortunately for Greeks, we have the opportunity to better ourselves through our respective chapters.
Even as an alumni member, I know that I can count on this community for support for important causes. This has been proven time and again to me as fraternity and sorority members have come through to assist me with numerous philanthropic causes I am personally involved with. Attached is a link to an article that was published yesterday as well, featuring the brothers of Sigma Chi and Theta Chi assisting with yet another service project at The Discovery Center. Regardless of what we find reported in sources such as The Collegian, we Greeks know that higher education, betterment of ourselves, and serving others is what being Greek is really all about.
Thanks again to the brothers of Sigma Chi and Theta Chi, we really appreciated your help at The Discovery Center last month!
http://www.thediscoverycenter......ean_up.php
-Brittnee Maxfield, Kappa Alpha Theta Class of 2007
When it comes down to it, no one really takes the collegian seriously anyway. Whatever!
I like how this Baxter guy bullies people around in the comments section. What a clown. The newspaper has the power to ruin people and spread inaccurate information. It’s up for public scrutiny. That’s not to say that everyone has to enjoy what’s printed, but the greeks have a good reason to question the motives of this article. If it was made clear what the point actually is (i’m still not sure), they would probably still be upset but rightfully and successfully subdued.
Making fun of new students’ writing ability is one thing, but calling into question the motive of stories is fair game and should be encouraged.
The paper is a powerful medium and responsibility comes with it.
What I have to say about this article is simple and expresses my feelings both as a Fresno State sorority alumna and someone who majored in MCJ:
Where’s the story? I agree with an earlier comment — I want back the ten-odd minutes it took to read this. If the reporter wanted to make a statement about sorority/fraternity-facutly advisor communication, they could have done so without the vague account of the “incident”. It left me thinking, “huh?”
AECD, as an alumna you should be a little more enlightened and more of a critical thinker. Then again, you were a sorority woman—Critical thinking was probably the last thing on your mind ;) The story is a lack of accountability and the Greek system at Fresno State allowing underage drinking and/or excessive drinking. The girl was at a function and if she reached the point of passing out, might have been binging. The Delta Zeta house might prefer to just sweep these matters under the carpet, but the school needs to be more involved—–in a nutshell, your story, madam. PS: It took you ten minutes to read the story? You’re a university graduate? Booya!!
You bandwagon Greeks—-the less academically inclined among you—– need to stop critiquing Katrina Garcia (the writer) and focus on the content of the article, —— i.e. subject matter.
There are few things more distasteful than a columnist stirring controversy and spreading lies where it is unwarranted and unnecessary. Routinely we see articles published by The Collegian attacking prejudice and its god-awful affects on our campus and general society. What strikes me the most is that The Collegian is subscribing to the same prejudice hypocrisy they so adamantly fight against. Brandishing a front-page news story about who is holding “Greeks” accountable is a stereotypical ploy to gain readers’ interest. Do we see any articles about who will hold athletics accountable for their players ‘countless felonies and crimes, or fights their players provoke at Fraternity events? Athletics doesn’t get direct bad publicity; the individual players might. Why is it acceptable for The Collegian to stereotype all Greeks, but not other groups? I’m, quite frankly, sick and tired of The Collegian’s prejudice rants and negative publicity against the Fraternities and Sororities at the CSUF campus.
The article published by The Collegian attacking the Delta Zeta Sorority for taking care of an intoxicated woman at their sorority house after the woman had drunk at a Fraternity house was pitiful. Yet again The Collegian takes a good situation and turns it bad for students to read. The Delta Zeta members, out of kindness, took care of the intoxicated girl in their own home. They took steps to report it to their internal advisers and handled the situation professionally and respectful of the intoxicated girl’s privacy. I think Delta Zeta acted with chivalry and did the girl a favor. How many of you would take home a random drunken person and care for them? Searching for a reason to write a controversial article, The Collegian decides to pick apart the incident and highlight how Delta Zeta simply did not report the situation to their faculty adviser as well. I ask the question then, does every Fresno State student who has had too much to drink need to report it to their professors as well? That would be non-sense. The fact of the matter is Fraternities and Sororities have a “corporate” name and letters associated with their actions. Individuals at friends’ houses who drink too much are random incidents and don’t get students to read their newspaper. If this same situation had happened at the University Village Apartments, then it wouldn’t have been press – just some other random drunken girl everybody laughed at.
The Collegian fails to mention the name of the Fraternity or the woman who was intoxicated. Why does the Collegian see fit to basically blame Delta Zeta for the girl’s intoxication? The hot topics about Fraternities and Sororities these days are underage drinking, loud parties, hazing, etc. Can’t any of the students see that this is a slap in ALL CSUF student’s faces? We are all, for the most part, adults and are fully capable of making our own decisions. So if a 19 year old student decides to drink at a fraternity house, then it is their choice as an adult to break the law. Fraternities and Sororities don’t pour alcohol down the throats of students at events and parties. Individual students themselves make the choice to drink and how much. Admittedly, Fraternities may make it more available to students who are underage, but if a student doesn’t want to drink, then they should be an adult and not drink. Maybe the campus should start giving all students an early curfew since The Collegian thinks we are all children and can’t make our own responsible choices. So, where’s the positive in all of this mess?
You see, here is where you stop reading my response. When I start to talk about the good that Fraternities and Sororities provide the campus, interest is lost and yet another lonely edition of The Collegian sits mangled on a bench. Philanthropic events, leadership conferences, scholarships, networking, blah-blah, don’t seem to get readers’ interest. The Collegian believes that students would rather read about Sorority girls who took care of a girl than hear about the thousands of dollars they raised for a charity. I ask you as intellectual college adults to see through the hype and take The Collegian for a grain of salt when they (typically) publish trash.
Ryan Finfrock
Graduate Student and Pi Kappa Alpha Alumnus
Mackee,
Your assumption that my response was actually one from the author of the article in disguise, is incorrect and pretty ignorant in light of many of your criticisms about the article. You then quote from my post as follows:
You say in your response that “it sounds like these women did a good thing and looked out for someone in distress” you then continue with, “would the sky have fallen if they had informed their advisor?” and then flip-flop again asking,”when did anyone suggest they inform anyone?”
Let me repost for you the exact quote (you can recheck the original if you think I’m lying):
“It sounds like these women did a good thing and looked out for someone in distress. In light of that, would the sky have fallen if they had informed their advisor? Where did anyone suggest that they inform everyone, as you write? ”
Did you notice the word you changed? I’ll assume that you were not being deliberately deceptive when you changed “everyone” to “anyone” and guess that you simply don’t understand the distinction between the two words. This must be the case because in your original post you wrote:
“again i ask, what dirt was dug up? Sorority girls took care of a drunk girl? And they had the audacity to not alert everyone?” There is that word again. You seem to be the one doing the flip-flopping with your word choice. I realize that is inconvenient because the dinstinction makes your next paragraph meaningless.
Let me state, again, what I see as the primary question. Is the current level of university oversight appropriate and the guidelines sufficiently clear? Clearly the Laura Williams quote about the “murky answer” as to when advisors should be informed of issues makes it plainly evident that greater clarification is needed. As I wrote, the current sometimes you tell, sometimes you don’t, it just kind of depends approach is decidedly unclear and can lead to potential problems for all involved. In the case cited in the article, it may very well be that this situation did not rise to the level of needing to be reported to the university, but shouldn’t all involved have a better idea of where that line is? The only clear threshold seems to be when a police report is filed. Having the sole arbiter of where that line is and when it has been crossed, be the group itself, is a policy asking for trouble. Even people with the best of motives, and I have no reason to think those involved here don’t, can use the perspective of someone without a vested interest in that group. So I ask again, would the sky have fallen if the advisor had been notified? I doubt it, unless the facts are considerably different than what was reported, and the sorority would have protected itself against any liability issues or accusations that they did something wrong.
Finally, arguing that nobody has the right to question the way this and related issues are handled if they involve a greek organization is every bit as ignorant as those who simply bash these groups, and in the end does more harm than good.
There are many things I could say in response to the personal criticism in the above comment, but I will refrain. What I will say, Michael, is that you are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. Isn’t that what comment boards are all about?
I was not insinuating that the lack of communication between Greek organizations and University is a non-issue; however, I was saying that I think the story could have been a hell of a lot better. The school does need to be more involved, I agree. Should some structural changes be made? I think so. Perhaps the story should have more aggressively taken that angle instead of using the sorority as a whipping boy for all organizations that do not report incidents that were not required to do so in the first place.
To Whatever:
I have never pretended to be anything but a clown. That’s why I have this big, poofy wig and comically large shoes.
As for bullying people in the comments section, about the only bullying I’ve done comes to people without their real names attached, and it was about how they didn’t have their real names attached.
Attack the article, if you must, by what it said and not how it said it.
If you can’t piece it together, the question asked by the article is simply as follows: how is the Greek community held accountable?
The evidence in the article — wholly provided by members of the sorority, with no The Collegian source disparaging the sorority — answers the question: it isn’t, or is very poorly held accountable.
Whatever you say, that’s a matter for concern.
Sad that we get 50 comments for some marginal story on a sorority—-student fee hikes, athletic department mismanagement, and Campus Pointe, on the other hand——-three or four at most.
Dear Interested Old soul,
I know you may be trying to make a liable argument, but the comment that you made about Danny Daniels is just uncalled for. Did you know him or the reason for why he did anything that he did? Please don’t bring up a very touching subject if you have no idea what you are talking about. Using a death of another individual is no way to win an argument, and is very immature.
Thank you
You’re low,
I think the Danny Daniels matter is highly material to the topic at hand. That case was the height of Greek irresponsibility on this campus—–that and the Sigma Nu sexual assault of 2003 (or was it ‘02). The lack of oversight should be a real concern. That poor gentleman had no business living in the house as he was not a fraternity member and not an active student. It is a very appropriate issue in the present matter. Not immature or simply used as a way to “win an argument” as you would point out.
Dear you’re low:,
Since when is the death of a human being a source of winning anything? Ms Garcia’s article as most have missed is not about bashing the system. I have not seen a negative comment about the clubs as a whole. The article was about holding those who would have a negative impact on these clubs be made to be held accountable in some way. Being in a club which as most of you point out has many benefits and serves the community and the university. Why the members of these clubs would want those who would bring them down not held accountable is beyond me. I do question the statement from this particular house about this stranger who was accompanied by a potential pledge got intoxicated and was taken care of by the house. What happened to the potential pledge?Did she disappear? Perhaps Ms Garcia’s article could have had the positive PR that most of you want if someone from that house would have had a comment. Seems something is amiss when you don’t want to comment on it. STILL OLD STILL SMART AND STILL CONCERNED
Mr. Baxter; before you edited your post, you put “Mackee– for one only mustered the fortitude after a number of posts” You have since changed it but just know that I never put a fake name and I never hid from anything. I was uninformed that you are ultimate judge of what is clever, and I find that ironic coming from someone who constantly writes articles that the majority of students think is very pretentious and not funny at all. I did not want to get too personal but you have made it that way.
I knew Danny Daniels personally and I was with him the night that he died. Danny was a VERY troubled soul with a lot of issues that he chose to handle with alcohol. I will never forget when at one point during that night he looked at me and said “Mackee, I have mixed about 5 different alcohols into this shot glass, take it with me” I immediately poured out the shot glass and grabbed him and took him aside and asked him what was wrong, he informed me about GIRL PROBLEMS and how, after everything else that had happened to him in the past year, this was the worst. I told him to not drink anymore because that is not the way to handle it. Danny told me that I just did not understand and the rest of the night I was continuously taking drinks away from him. At the end of the night as I was leaving, i saw him as he walked the girl to her car. She was going back to school the next day. I saw him watch her drive away and then look back at me in tears, saying “Why does this always happen to me?” I gave him a hug and told him to go to bed, everything is going to be alright, and we will talk about it the next day. The next day never came, because Danny Daniels drank himself to death.
Danny Daniels committed suicide, to try and blame the brothers of FIJI for helping out a homeless kid is not right, and moreover do not try and compare the events with Delta Zeta to this.
The argument that situations like this are handled poorly is a horrible.
To reiterate what all the Greeks have been saying, if you are not a Greek you only have an assumption of how things are supposed to work, you do not have to report instances like what happened at Delta Zeta to your advisor they do not have to know everything that goes on. So, according to the incident that happened at Delta Zeta, how where they not held accountable and what actions should have been taken?
GM, you are concerned with the laws not being clear, well no laws are clear, that is why we have a supreme court and, on a smaller scale, judiciary boards for the Greek councils.
And even if the story raises the question about Greeks being held accountable, the instance used to raise the question is a horrible one to use and if it such a big concern, why was there not a better case?
Mr. Baxter, just because it does not explicitly say that all Greeks drink and that Greeks are doing bad things and they need to be checked, I think it is safe to say due to the large response among students and on this board that it was definitely implied and the Collegian needs to be responsible.
On a side note I find it funny that even the informed few who have a clear understanding what this “article” (haha funny, funny) is about all have come to different conclusions.
One last thing; gm, you write (i will copy paste to make sure I get it right) “So I ask again, would the sky have fallen if the adviser had been notified?”
You are right the sky would not have fallen, but I have a question for you, reading all of the comments from those of us who actually participate in Greek life, do you think it was necessary, and if they did inform there advisor what would be different right now other then the fact that we would all have the time that we have spent reading the article and defending ourselves back?
Hey Baxter….
Erika
Erika Gutierrez
Thats my name!
want my address too?
No, I was not hiding behind a nickname, I just did not want to be affiliated with the sorority I was in. I don’t want what I said to be a representation of them. They are my thoughts and mine only.
What, do you want to come hunt me down now?!?!?!
hahahahahaha you’re a joke
So did knowing my name make you feel better. Aw good!
And by the way to the others: Greeks are writing about this so much because it has to do with us. How does it in any way effect you? Besides the fact that it gives you 20 minutes of something to do. SAD.
Mr. Mackee M. Mason, ASI Senator-At-Large, I had no idea that you were the ultimate judge of what most students think about The Collegian’s content, or the larger body of my writing. I’ll tell that to the next stranger from whom I receive a compliment.
I’m flattered that you caught my comment before I edited it out. I felt it was too low a blow to keep there, but if you insist you can hold on to it, anyway.
Since you seem to personally know a lot about Daniels the night before he died, the night spent at the FIJI house, maybe you’d know something about how he got that alcohol. Do you?
If you can’t remember what FIJI’s official version of the story was, feel free to check The Collegian’s archives.
“…do you think it was necessary…”
Yes. Any questions?
“…and if they did inform there [sic] advisor [sic] what would be different right now other then [sic] the fact that we would all have the time that we have [sic] spent reading the article and defending ourselves back?[sic]”
The players, and not the script.
Good job, Ms. Gutierrez. Here’s a gold star.
Online forums have the distinct weakness that everyone who writes anonymously somehow ends up with balls of brass.
Using your name, or even something that looks like a name, gives you some amount of credibility.
Exceptions: whoever posts as Lance Ito, Ralph Macchio, etc. is just another brass-balled anonymous poster, unless the first O.J. trial’s judge and the Karate Kid actor have an interest in Fresno State.
Good job, Ms. Gutierrez. Here’s your gold star.
Everyone who posts anonymously online — in any forum — ends up with balls of brass somehow, so posting your real name and a verifiable e-mail address lends you an air of credibility.
That’s just how it works — I don’t make the rules.
How does it affect me? I’ll just leave it at this: even surreptitious underage drinking is damaging to the university’s name. There’s enough skepticism about the “7 out of 10″ propoganda already.
It’s funny how even though something is in quotes and attributed to someone else, it still seems to be the author and the paper she works for saying it.
Huh?
Did they change the rules of writing on me?
I could have sworn that everything presented in this story was from the words of others, and their names and greek affiliations are clearly labled.
Of the many defending the Greek system, not one has answered the question asked in the headline.
What is the hierarchy of authority, and to what extent is that authority actually involved?
There are two main problems with the article by Katrina Garcia regarding Delta Zeta.
1) Diffusion of Responsibility from the true incident.
2) Prejudiced hypocrisy.
What is the real issue at hand? An ADULT woman became intoxicated and made the choice to do so. So where did Delta Zeta come in? They recognized that the woman was intoxicated, brought her to their own home and cared for her. They informed their internal adviser and the Greek Adviser. Were they required to? No. Were they required to care for the woman? No. Did they do anything wrong? No. Did the woman drink too much? Yes. The title of the article should have read, “Who will hold intoxicated students responsible?” The responsibility of the individual was diffused onto the larger group. Delta Zeta doesn’t have a problem, the drunken woman did. Why does our society insist on blaming others and not taking responsibility for their OWN actions? Delta Zeta broke no laws, did not harm anyone, and did the right thing by helping a woman and respected her privacy by not announcing it to the world. Everyone must keep in mind that this woman was an adult and made the choice to drink. Greeks are not pouring or forcing alcohol down the throats of students. Individuals, whether 21 years old or not, make their own choice to drink. Blaming Delta Zeta, or Greeks in general, is the easy way out of taking responsibility for your OWN actions. Take ownership of your own actions and don’t blame others for what you do right or wrong.
There have been many articles by The Collegian and/or its staff about racism, stereotypes and prejudice in general. This article subscribes to the same prejudiced hypocrisy they so adamantly fight against. To say “who will hold Greeks accountable” is a stereotypical ploy against a group of people to gain your interest and stir controversy. This title is meant to attack and stereotype all Greeks, thus provoking us as students to become offended and read their press. The truth is, anyone who is not in a fraternity or sorority has no right or knowledge to judge their actions, policies, events, functioning, etc. Greek life is part of the collegiate culture and attacking it is as prejudice and as wrong as attacking any other race, gender, ethnicity, religious creed, etc. The article was distasteful and it was pathetic of The Collegian and/or any of its staff.
Heather,
I will be more than happy to answer your question regarding the hierarchy of the Greek system.
The hierarchy of authority is as follows: (from top to bottom)
-Office of Student Affairs
-Student Activities Office (Greek Life)
-Greek Councils (Interfraternal Council, Panhellenic Council, National Pan-Hellenic Council, and Universal Greek Council)
-Individual Greek Letter Organizations
Within the four councils, as far as I know, only the Interfraternal Council and Panhellenic Councils are the ones that have judiciary boards. Those two are the traditionally housed fraternities and sororities. National Pan-Hellenic Council (NPHC) and the Universal Greek Council (UGC) are traditionally the multicultural fraternities and sororities.
The judicial boards of the councils handle matters accordingly IF a letter has been written to them directly. These letters must be written directly from a Greek letter organization. These letters can involve a multitude of things such as violation of rules, etc. Upon receipt of this letter, the judicial board will meet, discuss the matter at hand, and have a hearing. During the deliberation during those hearings, they will decide then what the course of action will be regarding the organization in question. Actions taken that can be imposed on the organization in question can range from anything such as sanctions to monetary fines.
I hope that answers your question. I’m glad to see that Greeks here on campus are taking a proactive step in standing up for matters that involve us. If you all have any questions, feel free to write back on here and I would be more than glad to answer your question, deemed that it is appropriate enough for me to answer them.
Mark Torres
Vice President, Order of Omega
Member, Sigma Phi Epsilon
Mackee,
Thanks for getting the quote right this time. Too bad you seem untroubled by your flawed assumptions and loose use of quotes to distort, not only what was said, but what it meant. It is convenient to simply pretend like half of your post, rendered meaningless by your changing the word, never happened.
I’m afraid I find your “no laws are clear, that is why we have a supreme court” defense/explanation, absurd. Actually, plenty of laws are quite clear. How about, it is illegal for someone under 21 to purchase/drink alcohol. Too vague? Your approach would seem to be that the person drinking and those with them, gets to determine whether that is against the law. From that perspective, I guess everything would be unclear to you. Furthermore, does the fact that something is unclear mean it must remain so? Is that the best approach? Is allowing there to be a lack of some type of consistent standard really best for the Greek groups? Remember, vagueness is a two-edged sword that cuts both ways. When something happens, the university can conclude that you should have told them, you are at fault. What will your defense be? Well we don’t always have to? Or might you more reasonably ask why it wasn’t made clearer when you must inform them or what steps to take?
That certainly doesn’t mean that some type of matrix can be developed that accounts for every possible event, we are all complex human beings after all. However it does mean we should try to give people guidelines that will help them.
Your position seems to be:
1. If someone is not a Greek, they don’t have anything worthwhile to say.
2. Only the Greek organizations get to determine whether they are doing everything they should.
3. Rules don’t say everything or even what has to be reported, that’s the way it is and always should be.
If that is your position, fine, but I don’t think it is in the best interest of students or the Greeks.
Finally, I do think they should have notified their advisor. And no, I don’t think it would have substantially changed the circumstances, if the facts are as reported. Perhaps the advisor would have given them some advice or maybe they would have asked questions about the frat party. What definately would have changed is that the sorority would have partnered with the university on how to handle the situation and actually protected itself. Isn’t that better for the Greek organizations?
Mr. Baxter,
I’m jdogg3tb, and I, most of all here in this forum know about the Danny Daniels Incident. I was there, I was his roommate, I was his big brother, I fed and clothed him, I found him dead in his bed that day, I found the suicide notes under his bed, I am JJ Toledo. So I would appreciate if you didn’t bring that up again. Fell free to look up my story in the Fesno Bee. Not the Collegian. January 10th, 2006. Front page. Until you get all the facts, keep your mouth shut. Or I will shut it for you.
As an Alumnus of Fresno State I am not taking sides, but explaining a point on readership. I also want to talk about how we as a collective society can learn and possibly grow from these series of events.
The question has been asked why would the Collegian publish such an article and why on the front page?
It is because of the society on campus, and the interest of readership. Students as well as the public at large seem to be interested in controversial articles, whether it be about a celebrity, a local/world hero, city official, and in this case a fraternity or sorority. Controversial articles are what sells news and or grabs a readers attention. They have succeeded in their goal in getting the public to read and respond to their news paper.
I understand the uproar that has been caused by this article and the situation at hand, but these kinds of things sells the news papers and gets ratings for television shows.
I understand how readership works; magazines, newspapers, television news show, broadcast networks and publishers want you to pay attention to what they are saying or writing. They know what sells and what their target audience is. It is not their fault that society thrives on controversial articles, gossip, and sex. We as a society like and pay attention to these things, so when people point the finger at these publications; I think they should point the blame on ourselves.
Secondly, I want to comment on why philanthropies and public service events that groups perform are not in the media at large. It is because these groups DO NOT let the media or public at large aware of these events properly. They think that word of mouth or free speech pamphlets are enough. I think they should contact the proper channels to let their causes be known, rather than the people they want at these events. Become part of the global community if you want people to know you are doing good things for our society,
I am aware that these groups do have fantastic philanthropies and public service events but that information is usually word of mouth. Take it to the next level and and contact the Collegian about these great service events and have them cover them. Maybe just maybe the public will change their minds about fraternities and sororities. I love the Greek system, and I know/feel it is an integral part of the college experience and community; so become PRO-active instead of RETRO-active. Get these seemingly biased reporters of the news on your side. It just takes movement on your side of the playing field.
Again, I support the Greek system as well as the Collegian. These to entities on the college campus are an important part of the experience and lifestyle at Fresno State.
Lets focus in getting TIMEOUT back to his big, grey, self.
GO BULLDOGS!!!!!!
Mr. Baxter,
Thank you for the Google search, I am Senator of Athletics and also President of the Red Zone you can add me on Facebook if your are such a fan, and I did not say that I was the ultimate judge, I am just going off what a lot of people have told me but that is beside the point.
Regardless of what FIJI said in reports I WAS THERE with JJ and he and I were the ones that talked to him that night. I chose not to include JJ’s name in the previous post because I had not yet confirmed it was ok with him.
The question that neither Baxter or gm (who is also confidential) seems to be able to answer, what about a house taking care of a dunk girl warrants the advisor being notified! Ask any Greek this incident would not call for that to be necessary. You think it is necessary but what do you know about Greek life that warrants the notification? Does the band notify their advisors if there friend gets drunk and they take care of him? I asked my neighbors who are on the band and they laughed! But then again “Who is in Charge/ Band members friend gets drunk and band member takes care of him./ Why did they not notify there advisor/ does not make a good newspaper.
Gm, I will admit that there are some laws that are cut and dry but there are laws that are open to interpretation hence why we have the supreme court and the likes. Do not make up what I mean and then argue against that, ask for clarification. “does that mean that if something is unclear it remains so?” No like i wrote thats why we have our judicary boards to straighten these laws that are open to interpetation out.. Do you really honestly believe that the university would conclude that if you are part of an organization and you take care of a drunk girl you should report it? Talk about ignorance.
“That certainly does not mean that some type of matrix can be developed that accounts for every possible event”
EXACTLY Again thats why we have those boards in place.
When did i say or infer that if you are not Greek you do not have anything worthwhile to say? That is absurd seeing how many other groups I am involved with. I am simply saying that I am not on the equestrian team, so it is not by position to hide behind a keyboard and say that if a girl misses a work-out she should lose scholarship money. Because I do not know what happens to the team if a young lady misses a practice, because I am not involved I should not call for that.
When has the question of whether Greek orgs. are doing everything they should even come up?
I also never wrote that rules do not say everything or even what has to be reported.
You are using these to devices to get away from the real issue; the article that questions whether a sorority should be held accountable for helping a drunk girl out, although they did nothing wrong. Seeing that they did nothing wrong what would partnering with the university help protect themselves?
You write “protect themselves. Protect them against whom, because the Collegian is the only one attacking.
Baxter, did you use sicut to highlight spelling errors or were you trying to be funny again? And underage drinking is damaging to the university image, I am going to have lean more towards title 9 issues, parking, columnists bashing university courtyard, rising tuition fees, textbook costs, and campus safety as being more damaging to the universities name.
And if you are so upset about how things are going, get involved, don’t hide behind your keyboard and use the Collegian as your soapbox, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! I have issues to, so I am very active on campus, and I work 30 hours a week to support myself, so there are not excuses.
Mr. Anacio,
The collegian does not sell there paper they sell advertisements and a lot of the advertisers have Greek backgrounds, so they will be held accountable.
And Timeout looks fine don’t be so negative.
Who needs to be funny when I’ve already got the moral high ground? And how is The Collegian attacking anything?
I hesitate to break down your latest rant of incoherence for fear that my brains leak out my ears. I dare you to make the obvious retort.
The band doesn’t pretend to have it’s high-and-mighty purposes that stress some form of integrity and lawfulness, unlike Greek organizations.
Moreover, I am not the voice of The Collegian. I am the voice of myself. Get over it.
Until you do, some interesting factoids.
“Their” is the possessive use.
“They’re” is a contraction, a substitute for “they are.”
“There” refers to location.
“To” refers to the preposition, and the first part of an infinitive.
“Too” has a meaning similar to “also.”
Please review until you’re comfortable with these concepts.
It’s: Not used for possessives. Only used in plural instances.
“I’ve already got” is incorrect usage. Should be “I have already gotten.” Much better still for the journalist is “already have.”
haha make that CONTRACTIONS, not plurals..
Baxter, what has the Greek system done to you? Did you get rejected by a fraternity house, or the more likely situation did a sorority sister turn you away? You really do not understand the dedication, and the time that we put into our fraternities. Just a question if fraternities are so bad then why have most of our presidents joined one.
Why should we tell our advisors, if we can handle the situation by ourselves? We are adults and we can handle things ourselves. Also you talk about people dying at fraternity houses, and underage drinking. Go to the University Village and walk around on a Friday night and see how many people are partying and underage. Or how about the shooting last year where two people where shot.
Another thing dues are not for parties. That money buys cleaning supplies, cooks, pledge events, goes to philanthropies, intramurals, scholarships, and renovations.
Last question, what have you done with regards to community services, or raising money for an organization that even comes close to that of the Greek system? I guarantee that you do not come close to the good that we do.
I apologize Mr. Baxter, I did not realize you were such a big fan, so much so that you know my moral standards. Please do not judge me, you are not better than me, in any way.
About the band, Ashley Capece, a section leader, informed me that members of the band are instructed by Tim Anderson and Gary GIlroy that they are not to drink in uniform, you all have a strict uniform policy, and you are to represent the band with integrity and lawfulness or you will be removed from band.
So do not tell me that you all are not held to some standards.
I will count this argument as finished due to this being reduced to correction of grammar, you obviously are defeated.
Nice try, Baxter Corrector. I’m not trying for journalistic perfection in talkback, though. I just try for a preponderance of literateness in my argument when I’m writing a comment.
The Greek system has done nothing to me, at least as you mean it. I don’t think I need more detail.
Associating fraternities with presidents will do you no favors. Richard Nixon was a charter member of a fraternity, and he was by far the most overtly corrupt president in his century.
The easy answer is, however, because fraternities provide their members with connections — the only thing that really separates a USC graduate from a Fresno State alum.
I never made the association between dues and parties. I don’t know where you got that.
I’ve done my own share of community service, but I don’t need coverage in The Collegian to feel vindicated or defended against Mackee’s horrible attempt at libel.
Maybe I haven’t raised as much money as a Greek organization. I know I haven’t.
I have something that will benefit me and my future students much more, however. I don’t rely on an Old Boy support network to give me anything.
Kids who’ve given up need that kind of insight more than they need the group mentality — for group mentality, high school has no frats, only gangs.
Fraternities aren’t gangs — I never said that — but the kids I’ll be working with will only have gangs. That’s one thing they can do well without.
All this ad hominem distracts us from the point: how are Greeks held accountable? If they investigate themselves, that’s somewhat of a substantial conflict of interest.
How are there honest, forthright investigations under those conditions?
Mackee? I’m not defeated. I just had to go to class.
The band are held to some standards, to be sure, but band doesn’t plaster a Geocities Web site with purposes of higher ideals, sustained by secret ritual.
You’ve demonstrated not only ignorance but stupidity. If you don’t know the difference, there’s always dictionary.com.
It’s funny that you bring up lawfulness. Check out California statutes 25658(a-c). Is your conscience clear with these?
Mr. Baxter,
To answer your question of ” If they investigate themselves, that’s somewhat of a substantial conflict of interest?”
The answer is no. When the Judicial Boards are picked, individuals who are selected are ones who are open minded and not biased towards one side. When an investigation occurs, there isn’t a stone that is left unturned.
If the parties at hand, feel that they want to appeal the decision, that is when University intervention occurs.
I hope that answers your questions.
Mark Torres
Vice President, Order of Omega
Member, Sigma Phi Epsilon
Baxter
What investigation needs to be done for a soroity taking care of a drunk girl? What is wrong with that?
Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., Michael Jordan, Pete Carrol, Phil Jackson All but 2 of the presidents since 1825, 63 percent of their cabinent members. You are better than them? They have not helped society? All of those people and you bring up Nixon? Wow!
And when did we say we needed coverage, we are just saying it would be nice to show both sides.
Have you hit the mat yet? You got more?
For the record, upwards of 70 comments and three people on your side.
Again with the personal attacks please be careful about the words that you write,
YOU WILL NOT CALL ME IGNORANT!
YOU WILL NOT CALL ME STUPID!
Whether saying that I demonstrate it or whatever, that is something that is not going to happen.
And what makes you think that I am in violation of any law? Are you just assuming?
What about the band not plastering a Geocities Website makes the standards that you are held to any different? You all should not be held accountable?
How are Judicial Boards unbiased when it is their own Greek organization they investigate?
What’s the purpose of an adviser if not to be a source of advice?
By the way, it’s a shame you’re the sole lucid and clear-headed Greek yet to comment on this post. There have to be more of you out there, somewhere, but I’m largely going on faith for this one.
Mackee, I do appreciate the fact that you say you wouldn’t write about something if you didn’t know anything about it. Neither would a good reporter. That’s why we investigate and do research.
I find your example of the equestrian team hilarious. I haven’t seen a non-sequiter like that since my Methods of Reasoning class. As a member of the team, I can tell you that if a reporter were to call the coach and ask about the consequences for missing workouts, the coach would tell you what they are. Our rules and regulations are very clear-cut.
To everyone questioning the value of “investigating taking care of a drunk girl,” I suggest you think about why Delta Zeta thought it necessary to do an internal investigation. Clearly there’s something there beyond a simple case of frat partying. Unless Greeks do investigations after every frat party, which to my knowledge may well be the case. Obviously, a lowly journalism student such as myself can’t apsire to understand every nuance of such lofty organ